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   ► MB LobbyCorel Paradox / ObjectPAL Coding BoardObjectPAL Topic   Print This     

Max Library Size

Max Library Size in ObjectPAL topic (part of our Corel Paradox / ObjectPAL Coding group).

Quick Search: Library   Max Library   Max Library Size  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Is there a maximum library size that one should stay under. The reason I ask is that I am experiencing quite a few General Protection Faults and I am uncertain as to why. I know in the past that we encountered this problem with calling a windows dll from the uses block. Someone told me that Paradox had a problem with Windows libraries over 64K. Does this 64K size apply to all libraries?
 Posted 15 years ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #10229, 21 replies
Thread Started 1/15/2004 3:45:00 PM
View Counter=4480
Last Reply Posted 5/31/2008 7:34:19 PM)
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
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Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA

Yes, it's true that under 16 Bit Windows 3.x there was a 64KB limit to delivered Paradox forms, libraries, and scripts. Your source code could be larger than 64KB but the compiled p-code of the FDL, LDL, or SDL had to be less than 64KB.

These limits only apply to the 16 bit version of Paradox. Namely Paradox 1, 4.5, 5, and 7 16-bit version. Paradox 7 32-bit, 8, 9, 10, and 11 do not have this limit.

So to directly answer your question, no there is NO limit so long as your using a modern version of Paradox.

Some Paradox developers believe there is a bug with p-code larger than 32kb. They say it's limited to libraries which doesn't make much sense because forms and libraries are pretty much the exact same code minus the GUI stuff for libraries. I've never seen this and have many forms and libraries larger than 32kb compiled code. However, just because I haven't reproduced the error doesn't mean it doesn't exist. So, to be safe, you may wish to keep your compiled p-code to less than 32kb. Remember, your source code is NOT in question, it can be as large as you want, only the compiled code is in question.

There is advice out there that says to limit your forms to 1 MB or so because of bugs. I've never run across that bug either but you can limit your forms to 1 MB or less just in case.

Trivia: Incidently, this 64KB limit was the original reason I created Workbench for Paradox. Back then it was called Paradox Desktop and it was a single .FDL file. My goal was to cram as many features as I could into a single delivered form. The .FSL file was some 200KB but compiled to just under 64KB. Whenever it crept above 64KB, I had to trim code to get it to fit. Then, at one point I decided to make it a commercial product and rewrote it. Now, of course, it's several dozen forms, libraries, scripts, and reports. For more info on Workbench, go to http://www.prestwood.com/products/workbench

--
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10230 (Level 1.1)  Reply to 10229
Thread Started 1/15/2004 6:18:00 PM
View Counter=2
Last Reply Posted 7/14/2008 2:00:19 PM)
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=73   BLOG, Topics=4  
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Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA
When you say lib, do you mean Paradox Library (.LSL/.LDL)? Or do you mean a DLL?

Do you get an error message? I mean other than the GPF. What OS? What version of Paradox? Finally, tell me a bit more about the code.

If you meant a Win32 DLL, the following is a bit more info:

Sometimes Paradox will terminate a window (a form) early because it isn't aware that you have made a call to a DLL or the Win32 API. Under that scenario, you would add a sleep() prior to destroying the window (closing the form). Try adding a sleep(500) which is .5 seconds and see if that helps. Let me know.

Also, to verify I'm hearing you correctly, you are saying that the DLL calls "usually" work but randomly do not.

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Mike Prestwood
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 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10240 (Level 1.2)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/16/2004 8:59:00 AM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
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Mike Prestwood
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Hi Beth,
Wow, what a great question:

"...how do I nail down the source of this GPF and any other's I may have in the future."

I'll answer here with my input and perhaps others can chime in too. I'll first answer the general implications and then the specifics.

General


I was lucky enough to work at Borland for several years in tech support so I had to diagnose stuff like that on the phone and in person all the time. Our first question was "always" is it reproducible. Cause, if it wasn't, then it was nearly impossible to correctly diagnose and fix. So, what I propose is that there is NO such thing as a random GPF. Simply put, a random GPF is a GPF we have YET to nail down. If you agree that we SHOULD be able to nail down anything that appears random given a "correct" test environment, then finding and fixing GPFs simply becomes an interesting puzzle.

With that said, I think the first step with "any" GPF is to nail down the steps to reproduce. Sure, you can and should follow up on any educated guesses and current theories, but if none of those pan out, you MUST nail it down to reproducible steps.

Now what is reproducible? Reproducible doesn't necessarily mean every time. Although it usually means every time, it could mean every third time or 1 to 3 times for every 10 times I run through a particular scenario.

Specific


Does the GPF mention any files or address locations? If it indicates a file, who's file? Paradox? Some other application? If it mentions an address location, have you done a google search on it?

Also, I noticed the name of one of the files is OLexchange. Does this have anything to do with OLE? Or communication with an external application?

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Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10263 (Level 1.3)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/21/2004 2:25:00 PM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=73   BLOG, Topics=4  
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Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA
Try adding a sleep(500) after the scan. That will give Windows enough time to finish writing to disk. Try it and post results here.

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Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10267 (Level 1.4)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 7:53:00 AM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
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Mike Prestwood
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Excellant, sounds like you're alot closer. That's good analysis. I'm sure you are already, but just in case you're not, move the msgInfo further and further back in your code. If we can nail down what line of code is causing the problem, then we can more easily solve the problem.

Also, I've NEVER failed to nail down a GPF to a single line of code. So rest assured, this isn't wasted time.

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Post ID #10271 (Level 1.5)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 10:05:00 AM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=73   BLOG, Topics=4  
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Mike Prestwood
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Just adding to this thread for lurkers...

When referring to the 64KB limit, I was referring to the fact that compiled forms, libraries, and scripts were limited to 64KB of compiled p-code under the Win16 API. This limit applied to the 1, 4.5, 5, and 7 (16-bit) versions of Paradox for Windows. This limit was related to a Win16 64KB DLL limit and it went away when Paradox was upgraded to Win32 starting with Paradox 7 32-bit Edition.

This limitation applied to the compiled p-code only and not to the filesize. In other words, you could have a 500KB form just so long as the compiled p-code was less than 64KB.

My Workbench for Paradox product started it's life as an experiment with pushing the limits of this 64KB p-code. At the time, the main form's FSL size was about 120KB and compiled to just under 64KB. Everytime I added a feature, I had to refactor my code to fit within the 64KB limit. I guess I had too much time on my hands back then!

When Paradox 7 32-bit came out, this limitation went away and I refactored Workbench for Paradox into a sellable tool with many forms, libraries, and reports. You can see this info with the compileInformation(dynInfo) method and the undocumented compilerTimeInfo(dynInfo) method.

Both of these are part of The Enumerator, a feature of Workbench for paradox. Here's a screen shot:

wb

Here is the output for the compileInformation(dynInfo) method:

wb

...and for the undocumented compilerTimeInfo(dynInfo) method:

wb

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Mike Prestwood
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 Posted 11 years ago
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Post ID #12792 (Level 1.6)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 5/31/2008 7:34:19 PM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=73   BLOG, Topics=4  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Mike,

Well, I'm really confused now then. Think! I was really hoping that I had atleast figured out where these GPF's where coming from by blaming them on the lib size.

Any ideas? They seem to be random...but one clue is that they are appearing between form changes. open one and close the calling form.

Thanks for your help! Big Grin!
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Post ID #10234 (Level 1.7)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/16/2004 2:44:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Mike,

Okay, forget the whole lib thing - I've confirmed that this error has nothing to do with that. However, I am getting a GPF randomly.

It's specifically between the opening of one form and the closing of another form. It's random too - doesn't happen every time I press the button to change forms.

When I get this GPF - I get no other error message - no clues.

Operating System: Windows XP Pro

Paradox Version: delivered from Paradox 10 and running on Paradox 10 Runtime

The code specs: pushbutton method does some table scanning with a TCursor, closes the cursor, then f.open(":c_posForms:OLexchange.fdl")

after successfull open - close()

OLexchange.fdl open method

initialize some variables and look at field values from several tables.

At this point I do not know what the source of this random GPF is.

My question is - how do I nail down the source of this GPF and any other's I may have in the future.

Thanks,

Beth
 Posted 15 years ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #10262 (Level 1.8)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/21/2004 1:00:00 PM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Mike,

Thanks for you interest in my question! I know it's a great question becuase it's driving me crazy and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there that's dealt with this mystery.

Yes, this GPF is reproducible and on several different computers with same OP sys and version of Paradox Runtime. Yesterday I had to run the sequence (basically just pressing my pushbutton) 22 times before I got the error. I tried it again later in the day, pressing the button over 50 times without any success in duplicating the error.

Unfortunately the GPF mentions NOTHING. It would be wonderful if a file was mentioned but no such luck.

The name OLexchange has nothing to do with OLE - just a coincidence.

I was trying to work with the Tracer yesterday afternoon but having trouble trying to figure out how to use in in Runtime on two different forms (remember this GPF shows up between the change from one form to another). I'd like to save the Tracer info to a file. I'm trying to determine if the problem occurs as the new form is opening or before that. I may be barking up the wrong tree with the Tracer all together.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
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Post ID #10264 (Level 1.9)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 5:20:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
The pushbutton method on the mainmenu form calls a custom method that does a scan of a table that contains names of various Paradox tables. On each record of that table it performs a isTable(record value) and then isTableCorrupt(record value). Once this scan is complete simple calls
if f.open(":c_posForms:OLexchange.fdl")
else
error procs
endif

on open method of OLexchange.fdl

maximize()

cmInitializeGlobalVars() - custom method just initiales form variables

cmReceiptPort() - opens a TCursor to one table and does locates to find particular values inorder to assign values to form vars - closes TCursor

cmEmptyTables() - opens 6 different tables with Tcursors. opens tcursor, empty table, close tcursor, open next tcursor, empty...etc

That's about it...

These are the same events that happen every time the button is pushed.

No others are touching the data.

Other Software running: Blast Data Pump in background, however, we've had no known issues to date with this software running concurrently.

Thanks,

Beth
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Post ID #10266 (Level 1.10)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 6:58:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Mike,

Already tried that, I have a sleep(1000) after the scan. No Dice Big Grin!

Thanks,

Beth
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Post ID #10268 (Level 1.11)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 8:22:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
I also tried putting sleep commands on the open method of OLexchange.fdl - this did not work either.

But now I've added a msgInfo at the very top of the open method of OLexchange.fdl and I've run the test cycle over 50 times now with getting the GPF error.

This may have fixed it but I don't want to use msgInfo. Any ideas on alternatives and why does this msgInfo get rid of it?

Thanks,

Beth Roll Eyes
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Post ID #10269 (Level 1.12)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 9:01:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Okay, scratch that, I thought the msgInfo on OLexchange form open had done the trick, but no such luck, I just got the error again.

However, I got the error before the msgInfo had a chance to come up. Does this tell me that the GPF is coming from mainMenu.fdl (the form that calls it)? I wonder...

Feel free to throw in any ideas if something pops in your head. I'd be eternally grateful!

Thanks,

Beth
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Post ID #10270 (Level 1.13)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 9:54:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Okay,

I did move the msgInfo back to the calling form - mainMenu.fdl. I tested again - tried 100 times and did not get error - hooray!

But I still don't know exactly what caused the GPF. Take a look at the code. This is the whole pushbutton method:

method pushButton(var eventInfo Event)

buttonBox.visible = false
exitButton.visible = false

cmVerifyTables() ; this is the one that does those table scans, where I originally started adding sleep commands

if coInit = "ol" then

msgInfo("Reminder","Read instructions carefully on next screen"
+ "\n"
+ "and be careful with your entries...")

if not f.open(":c_posForms:OLexchange.fdl") then

failCommand = "Form open"
failTable = ":c_posForms:OLexchange.fdl"
failForm = "mainMenu.fdl"
failProc = "exchangeButton pushButton"

cmAutoExit()
return
else

close()
autoExit = "Yes"
return
endif

else

if not f.open(":c_posForms:exchange.fdl") then

failCommand = "Form open"
failTable = ":c_posForms:exchange.fdl"
failForm = "mainMenu.fdl"
failProc = "exchangeButton pushButton"

cmAutoExit()
return
else
close()
autoExit = "Yes"
return
endif

endif

I'm looking at this code over and over again, but I don't see anything weird.

Go figure?

Also - I still don't like calling the msgInfo to prevent this error. But it's what's working for now...?

Thanks,

Beth
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Post ID #10272 (Level 1.14)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 12:57:00 PM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
abp
Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA
Okay, down in the gutter again. I tested this morning - and yes you guessed it - the GPF came back. After 63 times.

At this point I have a sleep(1000) and msginfo before the opening of OLexchange.fdl and I still am getting the error.

I can't just keep adding sleep commands all over the place. I'm getting extremely frustrated! Yikes!

There's got to be a better way to figure this out! Think!

Beth
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Post ID #10275 (Level 1.15)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/23/2004 5:44:00 AM
Location=Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=88  
Gary Vonckx
 (Inactive)
Ft. Pierce, Fla. USA
Beth,

This may or may not help.

I just got through resolving a problem where the "tcursor edit" error would come up whenever a user would try to enter info into a field on the form.

The problem was resolved temporarily by disabling code that opened a tcursor and inserted data for every single keystroke that a user entered into the form for monitoring purposes. This was creating a history table that was damaged by a network glitch.

After isolating the problem to the history table I found that the network glitch had somehow stripped the key field attributes from the history table.

To sum up have you got any procedures etc that are causing a lot of activity in the background between the 2 forms you mention. I tried "sleep" also all the way to 10000 with no success although I agree with the idea of "sleep" and "msgInfo" combined to isolate the line of code where the error occurs!

Good luck and good hunting! Also dont forget that sometimes you need to take a break and let the other "90%" of your brain work on the problem!
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Post ID #10293 (Level 1.16)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/28/2004 7:25:00 AM
Location=Ft. Pierce, Fla. USA  
Joined=18 years ago   MB Posts=23  
Langley McKelvy
Harris County Texas, USA
I think we need to look deeper than just the pushbutton event. What happens when the button is pushed? Is data manipulated? Is it the same data (or type of data) every time? Is the database in use by others at the time? What other software is running and what is it doing when the GPF happens?

These are the types of patterns to look for. I remember chasing down a seemingly random GPF for several days, only to learn that a user had cut-n-pasted Word documents into the memo fields of various records - and several control characters came along for the ride.
Mac

[i]"A king will have his way in his own hall, be it folly or wisdom."[/i] - Gandalf
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Computer Crimes Investigator / Computer Forensics Specialist Paradox for DOS/Windows Programmer

Post ID #10265 (Level 1.17)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 1/22/2004 5:44:00 AM
Location=Harris County Texas, USA  
Joined=17 years ago   MB Posts=387  
Tony M
 (Inactive)

Originally posted by papollo:


I seem to be have the same problem and thought it was 'Windows libraries over 64K' issue, but I am running Paradox 9 and xp.


The 64K barrier is if you have a DLL defined in your USES block.

This applies to all 32 bit versions of Paradox, including 9/10/11.

If you need a library (or form) that USES a DLL, it is far and away to your advantage to have a separate library with methods that expose the DLL functionality; then use that library from your other libraries/forms.

Further, I believe there is still a limit of 64K for each method and total PROC within a library/form.

And anything beyond 1MB Total Size for form or library and you will start seeing issues arise.
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Post ID #10843 (Level 1.18)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 11/22/2004 9:31:00 AM
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Tony M
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else

close()
autoExit = "Yes"
return
endif

Beth,

Is autoExit a flag that allows the form to close?

If so, how about moving it UP one line in your code, to BEFORE the close() statement....
 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10847 (Level 1.19)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 11/22/2004 1:47:00 PM
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papollo
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abp or anyone else that can help:

Has this GPF problem been fixed and if so how was it fixed?

I seem to be have the same problem and thought it was 'Windows libraries over 64K' issue, but I am running Paradox 9 and xp.

Using the tips and tricks that were used in this thread. I will start hunting it down.

Wish me luck!!

Thanks in advaance.
 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10836 (Level 1.20)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 11/19/2004 8:08:00 AM
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papollo
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Raleigh, NC
Montana:

Thanks for the info.
I will look into it.
 Posted 15 years ago
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Post ID #10844 (Level 1.21)  Reply to 10229
Reply Posted 11/22/2004 10:51:00 AM
Location=Raleigh, NC  
Joined=15 years ago   MB Posts=8  

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