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   ► MB LobbyAmerican I.T. Workforce BoardOffshoring Discussion Topic   Print This     

What is more important- Quality Work or Natinality

What is more important- Quality Work or Natinality in Offshoring Discussion topic (part of our American I.T. Workforce group).

Quick Search: important   Quality   Natinality   What more   What more important   Quality Work   or Natinality  
Vaibhav
 (Inactive)
Mumbai, -- UNK

Hi All,

      My question is very simple. In our Software industry, what is more important- Quality Work or Natinality. If we all agreed on Quality work then why we are fighting on this H1-B issue?

 Posted 10 years ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #13540, 11 reply
Thread Started 6/12/2009 5:39:30 AM
View Counter=12686
Last Reply Posted 6/12/2018 2:18:53 AM)
Location=Mumbai, -- UNK 
Joined=10 years ago   MB Posts=6  
Moderator
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA

Hi Vaibhav,

I don't think it's a matter of nationality. I think it's a matter of jobs. The H-1B program only exists here in America because of a perceived shortage of developers. There is NO shortage of developers. I have many very talented developer friends who are out of work despite Bill Gates' testimony to the contrary.

In fact, I'd suggest applying at Microsoft because despite recently laying off 5,000 American I.T. staff (mostly developers) they claim they need more H-1B developers. My impression is that now that Bill Gates has all his billions, he simply doesn't want to share with the rest of us Americans and wants to drive down the quality of life here in America by driving down wages. Very shameful.

By the way, "Natinality" is spelled nationality. I'm not normally so picky on a message board but I think that mistake points out a big reason why off-shoring doesn't work. Software development is a balance between art and science. Communication is the key to a successful software development project and communication is difficult enough as it is without introducing extreme distance, lack of an overseeing legal body, communication ignorance, and cultural differences.

--
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 10 years ago
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About Mike Prestwood

Mike Prestwood is a drummer, an author, and creator of the PrestwoodBoards online community. He is the President & CEO of Prestwood IT Solutions. Prestwood IT provides Coding, Website, and Computer Tech services. Mike has authored 6 computer books and over 1,200 articles. As a drummer, he maintains play-drums.com and has authored 3 drum books. If you have a project you wish to discuss with Mike, you can send him a private message through his PrestwoodBoards home page or call him 9AM to 4PM PST at 916-726-5675 x205.

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Post ID #13633 (Level 1.1)  Reply to 13540
Thread Started 8/5/2009 12:56:31 PM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=70   BLOG, Topics=4  
Moderator
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA

Hi Vaibhav,

You were talking about H-1B. I'm not sure you understand that the H-1B program has nothing to do with off-shoring. It has only to do with bringing foreigners in to take American jobs. NO other country in the world allows that. Not your country, not any. At least not in any significant numbers like the H-1B program does.

As for thinking global, sure, a fair exchange is in order and an exciting opportunity. I offer my company's services to you. We are very talented developers ready and willing to work. Do you have any projects you wish to have us work on? I've got a plethora of developers ready and willing to work.

As for the typo, I understand and accept it was just a typo. I do find it very strange that you typed it that way both in the subject and body. It seems more likely you are not willing to admit a simple mistake which makes me wonder how easy you would be to work with. Either way, it simply allowed me to make a point about communication, culture, and governing legal entities. That's all. 

--
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 10 years ago
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Post ID #13640 (Level 1.2)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/5/2009 11:43:27 PM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=70   BLOG, Topics=4  
Moderator
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA

Hi Vaibhav,

Wow, your arrogance is mind blowing. You really think Americans are greedy and dumb, and that Indian workers are superior to American workers. That's amazing. What is your basis for these negative opinions?

--
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 10 years ago
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Post ID #13644 (Level 1.3)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/6/2009 8:34:17 AM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=70   BLOG, Topics=4  
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Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT
Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA

>>...why the Indian IT industry is on the top?

The cost of living in India is cheaper than in America. Right now, the cost of living in China is less than in India and China is ramping up it's I.T. industry. Will your country allow Chinesse workers in to take Indian I.T. jobs? After all, they are willing to work for less than you? See the problem?

Will your government allow Indian companies to outsource in large numbers to China? Will they encourage it like we do?

--
Mike Prestwood
Prestwood IT Solutions

 Posted 10 years ago
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About Mike Prestwood

Mike Prestwood is a drummer, an author, and creator of the PrestwoodBoards online community. He is the President & CEO of Prestwood IT Solutions. Prestwood IT provides Coding, Website, and Computer Tech services. Mike has authored 6 computer books and over 1,200 articles. As a drummer, he maintains play-drums.com and has authored 3 drum books. If you have a project you wish to discuss with Mike, you can send him a private message through his PrestwoodBoards home page or call him 9AM to 4PM PST at 916-726-5675 x205.

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Post ID #13645 (Level 1.4)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/6/2009 8:42:31 AM
Location=Prestwood IT office in Citrus Heights, CA 
Joined=19 years ago   MB Posts=1410   KB Posts=1805   KB Comments=70   BLOG, Topics=4  
Kim Berry
Prestwood IT
Citrus Heights, CA USA

Vaibhav,

you have presented no evidence that H-1b workers have higher quality than American workers. In fact in every case I've witnessed of an H-1b beating out American job candidates for American jobs, the factor was not "quality" but rather "the H-1b was asking a lower bill rate."

So let's frame your question correctly: "What is more important, cheapest wage or Nationality?" Certainly every industry in the U.S. would like cheaper labor. I suspect that a billion people in India and China would be happy to come to the U.S. and work in fast food industry for below minimum wage. We already see that with Mexicans working under the table in the construction industry.

In the U.S. our Congress is supposed to represent the interests of American people, not the interests of multi-national corporations. Currently American college grads cannot find jobs. Thus Americans oppose that H-1b workers continue to flood into the job market.

H-1b also hurts American firms such as Prestwood Software. Bodyshops that pay low-wage H-1b can underbid firms that pay fair wages, and thus win contracts. This harms both the American workers and the U.S. employers. They then pay less income tax and the budget deficits grow.

Here is how a typical bodyshop gets public sector contracts and then staff up with cheap H-1b workers:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2009/07/31/2009-07-31_computer_firm_bills_ed_dept_average_of_250g_per_consultant.html

--
Kim Berry
Senior Programmer Analyst

 Posted 10 years ago
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Kim Berry is an experienced coder currently specializing in VS.Net C# coding of WinForm and WebForm applications. Kim currently works part time for Prestwood IT Solutions and participates in this online community when time allows. Kim worked fulltime at Prestwood Software for four years and is still available for part time evenings and weekends work. He was one of the main Prestwood developers developing ASPSuite and has coded in many languages including C, Visual Basic, Delphi, and Visual Studio.Net.


Post ID #13639 (Level 1.5)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/5/2009 11:37:41 PM
Location=Citrus Heights, CA USA 
Joined=17 years ago   MB Posts=65   KB Posts=19   BLOG, Topics=4  
Kim Berry
Prestwood IT
Citrus Heights, CA USA

Hi Vaibhav,

I never said anything degratory about Indian IT industry or workers. I did not say that Indians cannot deliver a quality product. But you cite a stereotype that "Indians are better than Americans":

a) Indians can adjust to any culture or to any lifestyle.

b) Americans always ask for a big salary without having that much caliber and flexibility.

Keep in mind that it has been American companies, predominately staffed by American IT workers, that have made all of the software breakthroughs in the past 50 years.

Can you please cite a figure for "big salary"? What salary do you believe low skilled programmers are demanding? Then we can discuss the salary aspect further.

Regarding your claim "quality, flexibility, talent, at a low rate...is the only reason we people always get jobs anywhere in the world." That is not true. Companies run by Indian management in the U.S. hire almost exclusively Indians - Indian managers often overlook the top resumes of Americans because they have relatives and colleages asking for jobs. The staff of TCS, Infosys, Wipro, and Satyam in the U.S. is almost exclusively Indians. These are not "innovative" companies. In contrast innovative companies like HP use very few H-1b workers from India. Their R&D labs are staffed predominately American IT workers.

Generally American companies are able to thrive without any or with very few H-1b workers. When contracts are awarded to Indian consulting firms the Americans are often forced to train their replacements. It is unfair competition because Americans need to pay student loans of $50k or more, while education in India is cheap.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Management/Indian-Outsourcing-Firms-Top-H1B-Visa-Grants/

"Infosys Technologies, Wipro Technologies, Satyam Computer Services and Tata Consultancy Services dominate the USCIS list of companies winning H-1B visas in 2008, using more than 10,000 of the controversial visas limited to 65,000 foreign-educated workers per year."

--
Kim Berry
Senior Programmer Analyst

 Posted 10 years ago
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Post ID #13643 (Level 1.6)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/6/2009 5:56:04 AM
Location=Citrus Heights, CA USA 
Joined=17 years ago   MB Posts=65   KB Posts=19   BLOG, Topics=4  
Vaibhav
 (Inactive)
Mumbai, -- UNK

I think talent is more important...

 Posted 10 years ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #13541 (Level 1.7)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 6/12/2009 5:50:21 AM
Location=Mumbai, -- UNK 
Joined=10 years ago   MB Posts=6  
Vaibhav
 (Inactive)
Mumbai, -- UNK

Yes you are right. But in the 21st century we are talking about Globalization. And as a global leader you can not just think about only Americans.

And by the way that (spelling mistake of Nationality) was just a typo mistake.

 Posted 10 years ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #13638 (Level 1.8)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/5/2009 11:08:23 PM
Location=Mumbai, -- UNK 
Joined=10 years ago   MB Posts=6  
Vaibhav
 (Inactive)
Mumbai, -- UNK

Hi Kim

What you people think we can not deliver a quality product. If it is true then why the Indian IT industry is on the top?  The fact is that we can adjust ourselves to any culture or to any lifestyle. We are always ready to relocate anywhere in the world to make money for our companies or for our nation.

Actually the problem is that you  people  always ask for a big salary without having that much caliber and flexibility. You can not change your lifestyle, you are not able to adopt different cultures.

And if some company is getting these all things like quality, flexibility, talent etc in one person and comparatively  at low rate then the company should hire that person. And that is called as business and fortunately we have that all. We know how much we require spending life peacefully.

That is the only reason we people always get jobs anywhere in the world.

So please think once  before making any statement against anyone or against any culture.

Thank you

Vaibhav Ranade

 Posted 10 years ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #13641 (Level 1.9)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 8/6/2009 2:06:57 AM
Location=Mumbai, -- UNK 
Joined=10 years ago   MB Posts=6  
lowster11
WebDezinz
Carmichael, CA USA

This thread starter is a perfect example of why I am against outsourcing. I don't know how many emails I get from places wanting my clients, the few that I have.

He stated that talent was more important to him and then turned the thread into a "we" and "you people" battle as soon as the fact that he had made a spelling mistake was pointed out.

I am sure he will not be back to reply, but I would like to know if this is how he acts towards clients (you people) if they point any mistakes out to him?

And if you do mossy back to check up on your tried "slap in our face" post, I assume by "we" you are referring to the Indian people and nation of India, and that "you people" refers to Americans? 

If so I hate to point out another mistake that has been made, "you people" should refer to a single Nationality, and "we" should refer to everyone else, because as Americans, We are a  "we" of many Nationalities, but united we stand.... so if you want my job, then Sir, pry it from my dead hands.

 Posted 9 years ago
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provide's refurbished computers and computer support.


Post ID #14171 (Level 1.10)  Reply to 13540
Reply Posted 6/13/2010 7:56:07 PM
Location=Carmichael, CA USA 
Joined=9 years ago   MB Posts=29   KB Posts=18   KB Comments=19   BLOG, Topics=3  
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Post ID #17025 (Level 2) and Parent is 13540
Reply Posted 2/22/2018 2:57:06 AM
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