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   ► MB LobbyCorel Paradox / ObjectPAL Coding BoardParadox Forms Topic   Print This     

Form won't open

Form won't open in Paradox Forms topic (part of our Corel Paradox / ObjectPAL Coding group).

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Ash.B2
Melville, -- --

Inexperienced user here.  Self-taught, and smart enough to know that I don't know much.

Paradox 10 running on Windows 10

I spent weeks developing a paradox form and application for a project I'm doing, then the form simply stopped loading. So I did it all again, spending weeks again. Then it stopped loading again.

I can open all other forms in the same project, all tables, and all datamodels.  The form in question worked fine when I had it open last, designing and testing it.  Now it won't load.  All I get is the timer circle spinning, and it won't stop until I go to Task Manager and shut Paradox down.  No error message at all.

 Posted 56 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17686, 15 replies
Thread Started 10/21/2019 11:40:07 PM
View Counter=79
Last Reply Posted 10/23/2019 12:54:09 PM)
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
Moderator
Steven.G
Myrtle Beach, SC USA

anything significant in the init, arrive, or open?

any tables attached that might be corrupt and/or have bad indexes?

does a pervious version open?

can you step thru the beginning stuff, put little messages or breakpoints, to see exactly where it hangs?

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Prestwood IT Solutions
8421 Auburn Blvd, Suite 256, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Office: 916-726-5675 | Fax: 916-726-5676 | http://www.prestwood.com
 Posted 55 days ago
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Post ID #17687 (Level 2) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 4:52:14 AM
Location=Myrtle Beach, SC USA 
Joined=39 months ago   MB Posts=327  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven.G

anything significant in the init, arrive, or open?

any tables attached that might be corrupt and/or have bad indexes?

does a pervious version open?

can you step thru the beginning stuff, put little messages or breakpoints, to see exactly where it hangs?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.


The file worked, and then it didn't.  No changes between.  I've never added anything to the init, arrive, or open for the form yet.  I was about to, but that's when it stopped opening (before I could add them). 

Other forms open the same tables individually, so I don't think it should be the tables based on that.

The previous version stopped working a couple of weeks ago, which is why I had to redo everything, only to meet the same problem.  I have a backup of this particular form, but since it was working fine, I backed it up to the present iteration.  Now neither the original form nor its backup will open, nor will the original form from weeks ago.  All of the subforms (enter this, enter that, lookup table entry forms) all work fine.  Just the main form that ties them all together doesn't open at all.

I wish I could step through the beginning stuff, but the form will not open at all.  I get the circle (in the old days it would have been an hourglass) spinning.  I let it spin for an hour to see if it would eventually open, but it does not.  Nothing in Paradox will accept a command or input while this is happening.  Literally the only way out is to shut the program down through Task Manager. 

This happens in both View and Edit modes, so there is no way to add or remove code to troubleshoot, as I can't get to the file at all to make changes.  Nothing shows on status bar on bottom of window, either.  She just locks up solid.  The frustrating thing is that it literally worked two hours earlier, I took a break, backed up a WORKING application, and when I came back... poof!

On a completely unrelated note, I can't access the Paradox help files on my system, either.  Windows 10 and Paradox apparently do not get along.  All I get is Windows Edge (NOT my default browser!) saying it can't access the files.  But again, that is unrelated to my problem at hand.

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17689 (Level 1.1)  Reply to 17687 and Parent is 17686
Thread Started 10/22/2019 12:24:30 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
Cottage Builder
Feilding, -- NZ

Over the years, I have often had forms drop out on me.  I have learned to deal with issues peculiar to me' by opening the form from 'Project Viewer' by selecting open|form|.. and then providing the name of the errant form, and its directory, in the dialogue box.  Once I get the form open, I go to ...|dataModel| and then remove ll child tables from the form.  If the form opens normally at that point, then you can re-engage the child tables, one at a time.

Ross

 Posted 55 days ago
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Post ID #17691 (Level 2.1)  Reply to 17689 and Parent is 17686
Thread Started 10/22/2019 12:42:17 PM
Location=Feilding, -- NZ 
Joined=12 years ago   MB Posts=17  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottage

Over the years, I have often had forms drop out on me.  I have learned to deal with issues peculiar to me‘ by opening the form from ‘Project Viewer‘ by selecting open|form|.. and then providing the name of the errant form, and its directory, in the dialogue box.  Once I get the form open, I go to ...|dataModel| and then remove ll child tables from the form.  If the form opens normally at that point, then you can re-engage the child tables, one at a time.

Ross

That's exactly how I'm trying to open the form.

Going to open the data model and start deleting tables, I guess.

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17694 (Level 3.1)  Reply to 17691 and Parent is 17686
Thread Started 10/22/2019 1:10:27 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
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Steven.G
Myrtle Beach, SC USA

for the help file thing.. this should be all you need

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=91

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Prestwood IT Solutions
8421 Auburn Blvd, Suite 256, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Office: 916-726-5675 | Fax: 916-726-5676 | http://www.prestwood.com
 Posted 55 days ago
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Post ID #17690 (Level 3) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 4:54:01 AM
Location=Myrtle Beach, SC USA 
Joined=39 months ago   MB Posts=327  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven.G

for the help file thing.. this should be all you need

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=91


Yeah, all I get is a dialog that says "certificate for the signer of the message is invalid or not found".

And yes, I disabled my security software.

But thanks anyway.

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17693 (Level 1.1)  Reply to 17690 and Parent is 17686
Thread Started 10/22/2019 1:05:46 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
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Steven.G
Myrtle Beach, SC USA

for the form, I've seen instances where this can be related to indexes that support 1-to-many, in the "many" table

I've seen instances where the form itself has become corrupt/unstable in some particular spot, and it doesn't go away til you happen to delete or replace that "random" spot

I've seen instance where changing the block size of one of the lined tables fixes everything

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Prestwood IT Solutions
8421 Auburn Blvd, Suite 256, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Office: 916-726-5675 | Fax: 916-726-5676 | http://www.prestwood.com
 Posted 55 days ago
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Post ID #17692 (Level 4) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 12:47:30 PM
Location=Myrtle Beach, SC USA 
Joined=39 months ago   MB Posts=327  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven.G

for the form, I‘ve seen instances where this can be related to indexes that support 1-to-many, in the "many" table

I‘ve seen instances where the form itself has become corrupt/unstable in some particular spot, and it doesn‘t go away til you happen to delete or replace that "random" spot

I‘ve seen instance where changing the block size of one of the lined tables fixes everything

Wow.  It sounds like the software itself is really unstable.  If stuff like this happens, how do they keep customers?

Is there a way to force the file to open in another way?  Non-wysiwyg text or something, to make alterations?

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17695 (Level 1.1)  Reply to 17692 and Parent is 17686
Thread Started 10/22/2019 1:11:48 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --

OK so I opened every data model in the directory (and backed them up to a different directory), then removed every link, and every supporting table from each one (not sure which one was being used by the form in question).

Even with every data model in the directory having only one table, the form still won't open.  Other forms do, though.  And they work.  Even with the data model gone.  Their lookups work as well.  I'm confused.

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17696 (Level 5) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 12:24:20 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
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Steven.G
Myrtle Beach, SC USA

actually, paradox is amazingly stable.. there are many 20-year old systems that still run, even in today's complex world.. but that doesn't help you, at this moment

customers? paradox has been a dead platform since 2002

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Prestwood IT Solutions
8421 Auburn Blvd, Suite 256, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Office: 916-726-5675 | Fax: 916-726-5676 | http://www.prestwood.com
 Posted 55 days ago
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Post ID #17697 (Level 6) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 1:50:44 PM
Location=Myrtle Beach, SC USA 
Joined=39 months ago   MB Posts=327  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --

I was unaware that they had killed Paradox.  It still shows as for sale on Corel's website, I thought.

In any case, that explains why Corel doesn't support it and why the help files don't work. 

Maybe I should just give up and do it all on a piece of paper...

doing a car restoration, and trying to cross reference part numbers from various suppliers against the original part numbers so that I can compare prices and track what parts I've ordered and what I paid for them

Couldn't find a prebuilt one, so I thought I'd build my own.  Wasted a month so far.

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17698 (Level 7) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 12:24:20 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --

OK, I've repaired and rebuilt all the tables, removed all referential integrity and lookups from them, and still the form won't open.

Any other suggestions as what to do?

 Posted 55 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17699 (Level 8) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 12:24:20 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
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Steven.G
Myrtle Beach, SC USA

paradox is sold as part of the WP Suite.. it has not changed since 2002

the help file thing is generic to 32-bit hlp files

sorry that you're jumping into something unknown.. we've given several potential solutions, but without actually having the files in front of us, it's all guesswork

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Prestwood IT Solutions
8421 Auburn Blvd, Suite 256, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Office: 916-726-5675 | Fax: 916-726-5676 | http://www.prestwood.com
 Posted 55 days ago
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Post ID #17700 (Level 9) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/22/2019 3:11:24 PM
Location=Myrtle Beach, SC USA 
Joined=39 months ago   MB Posts=327  
Ash.B2
Melville, -- --
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven.G

paradox is sold as part of the WP Suite.. it has not changed since 2002

the help file thing is generic to 32-bit hlp files

sorry that you‘re jumping into something unknown.. we‘ve given several potential solutions, but without actually having the files in front of us, it‘s all guesswork

I very much appreciate all the time that you have taken on this.  Please don't think I'm ungrateful.  I know its virtually impossible to troubleshoot blind.  The suggestions that have come up have been good ones, and I've tried them.  They just didn't work in my case.

I'm happy to send the files to anyone who wants to try to decipher this.  Though in all honesty, it may be more time efficient for me to start again.  I still have my tables, and my "feeder forms" for changing and adding to the Lookup tables are all functioning. 

Since creating one big central form to link everything together has now failed twice, I think this time I will use several smaller forms, each one opening the ones that it feeds into. That way IF one fails again, its less work to rebuild it, plus its also less complex, so less likely to fail.  (When I started this, I didn't know this was possible, but the upside to all this is that I've learned a ton!)

Thank you again for the help.  And like I said, if someone wants to sort this out for a troubleshooting exercise, I'm happy to provide the files, but I'm not going to flog it any further on my end.

 Posted 54 days ago (Thread Starter)
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Post ID #17701 (Level 1.1)  Reply to 17700 and Parent is 17686
Thread Started 10/23/2019 12:03:19 PM
Location=Melville, -- -- 
Joined=56 days ago   MB Posts=12  
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Steven.G
Myrtle Beach, SC USA

thanks, and best of luck with it

I've been doing this for 30 years, and occasionally one of these mysteries pops up.. it can happen with any program, any platform, any app.. outdated technology just adds to the confusion, and fun :-)

my most recent detective job involved a minor change to a library call, and I had to add a semi-colon to the call in three forms.. one form immediately started GP'ing.. bit by bit, I put in temp message and return lines, to isolate the problem.. ultimately, I found that it was barfing on an "else msginfo() endif" that had no relation to the library call.. most likely, a bad block on disk, at some point in its' life, and I guess I eventually moved something to a different block

Steven Green
Senior Software Engineer
Paradox Support Specialist DOS/WIN

Prestwood IT Solutions
8421 Auburn Blvd, Suite 256, Citrus Heights, CA 95610
Office: 916-726-5675 | Fax: 916-726-5676 | http://www.prestwood.com
 Posted 54 days ago
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Post ID #17702 (Level 10) and Parent is 17686
Reply Posted 10/23/2019 12:48:35 PM
Location=Myrtle Beach, SC USA 
Joined=39 months ago   MB Posts=327  
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